When I split with my now ex-wife 10 years ago, PUA content changed my life. I learned enough game to meet my personal definition of success with women. The road between then and now has not been smooth. However, those potholes were valuable lessons as well.
I found the content of 10 years ago to be centered on personal development and improvement. Sure, there were women-hating misogynists; they were a minority and their content didn’t appeal to me. Self-improvement and libertine entertainment for all involved is what I focused on and educated me.
The world has become more divided and polarized in the last 10 years and current manosphere content reflects this. Content creators that I used to pay attention to and are still producing now seem unnaturally focused on “us vs them.” And the new generation of creators are immature children.
Mature, reasoned, fact-based content like what you produce is in short supply - which doesn’t bode well for the manosphere’s future.
Must confess I don`t 100% buy into the (pretty old) "the radical left drove normal people to become right-wing idiots"-trope.
I think it was more of a tit for tat development where one of the driving forces was also guys like Roosh, Anthony Johnson, Tate intentionally putting out controversial stuff in order to attract clicks. Which in turn increased the focus of the-very-online left on the manosphere and on trying to cancel those guys. Which drove those guys to respond...
This is also the answer to your point no. 2: it`s all about attention, clicks, engagement and ultimately money and the social media algorithms amplifying outrage (no matter, if from the left or the right), because outrage is the best way to achieve attention, clicks...CREAM
It's pretty simple. PUA teaches you about reality, the state of the world and biological differences. To be successful you have to improve yourself, as well as work with reality as it is (not as you'd like it to be.
This is what it means to be right wing in essence as well. Understanding the differences between groups and working to build societies that work based on those realities.
The left is the side of wishful thinking at best, and hateful envy at worst
It's interesting...as well as PUA's tending to lean right....the saying goes there are no left wingers who lift. Again a group that has learned to work with reality vs wishful thinking
The funny thing is that the left thinks they know about reality and the state of the world... I just remarked in another comment,
>>"I wonder if the very nature of "swallowing the red pill" encourages conspiratorial thinking"
>>It might, but the "woke" metaphor is pretty similar to "swallowing the red pill." The woke think they are "awake" and everyone else is then asleep to what they perceive to be the true issues, or the true nature of reality.
Yes everyone believe their view is correct, or they wouldn't hold it
But you asked why PUA's go right. When men learn game they often come from a "everyone is born equal" perspective that is the default teaching of western society. Then they (often painfully) learn Game and the biological differences between men and women, and how certain behaviors will stimulate certain reactions in women. They see how men and women are born this way, and that people are not born blank slates
These same men see how well game works because of the innate differences between men and women, and then start to apply that learning to other groups, such as race. They then see again that the "everyone is born equal and differences are purely due to systemic racism/environment" also doesn't apply, and that societies (relationships between different groups of people) should take these differences into account to work well
You yourself may not agree with it. But this answers your question
I'm not sure that blank slate ideology or whatever its opposite may be is a or the fundamental driver... noting the differences between men and women seems like too small a driver. And many on the left are not blank slatists... Steven Pinker is (was?) on the left, and even wrote THE BLANK SLATE...
> It's pretty simple. PUA teaches you about reality,
Agree. Reality. And Natural Law - which aligns with a very old, consistent, well proven view of the world.
"Right" and "Left" are political terms. Whereas "conservative" (closed/consistent) and "liberal" (open/new) point at more psychological states.
It might seem odd that "conservative" guys would get laid and "liberal" guys would not. But if we think about "Chad" on the HS football team, or later in a fraternity in college... there might be some debauchery, but still full acknowledgement of Natural Law. Too much drinking, lots of girls, but an eye on reality the whole time.
A Liberal mindset, and proclivity toward openness leads to creativity. In many cases that is attractive, and successful. Like the "artist" that gets laid. But that is rare. That isn't supposed to work "mainstream." It doesn't apply to most men, they won't do "openness" well. And most women don't want an artist... a classically masculine man remains very desireable.
As the Left has taken this "openness" way beyond what Natural Law will allow, it's been obvious failure. It's hard to run daygame with drug zombies on every corner. I lived through that Leftist change in SF. It wasn't online. It wasn't social media. It was right in front of me. Most of the Leftist shit that took off around 2010 (2014, really) is now in retreat... as it hasn't made the world better. I don't want to "defund the police." I want a safe neighborhood for work, and for pickup, and to date. I don't want to be car jacked as I drive a girl home. None of this is good for turn on. Being unsafe doesn't make girl's panties wet.
I agree that "Liberal" types might embrace sex, or more "taking sex out into the open." Recently the Left was "all trannies, all the time, gay, gay, gay," which isn't a great worldview for straight men. It's not even political, it's just not Natural - we're not all gay, we're not all dying to go trans. Conservative people fucked (and often had lots of kids), but didn't wear it on the sleeve or push it as a healthy motto for society. It's not healthy. We can see that.
You Redquest, and Yoylo, are examples of a rare kind of player, as I see it. Very high in "openness," which might align you to the Left. You're also more inclined toward "sex clubs" and other more "open" concepts, including being "Poly." I think that is the rare position, actually. Whereas Chad from the football team is more common. Or even, "I just got a promotion at work and picked up a girl at the bar afterward" typical merit driven men doing better, having more sex. That seems more typically and aligned with what we'd expect based on Natural Law. The Alpha male doesn't sit around, smoke pot all day, and wait for basic income.... how is that sexy? It's not.
My point isn't even that a conservative/traditional view is "better." It is only that it makes more sense, particularly with the current outcomes we've seen. Life is not better in obvious ways.
And I personally took a very conservative, "hard working" attitude, applied it to Game, and did very well. "Hard work" is conservative thing, not a "Liberal" one. A lot of Game is a "part time job" (good description), not a "hand out" - doesn't work that way, life doesn't work that way.
Game cleans you up, and brings you into many lifestyle habits that have "traditionally been successful." I don't care about any part of the "manosphere" except Game. But even just within Game, we see that.
Nice observation. Definitely true, and definitely odd. I came to the scene back in the moderated ASF days. Back then everyone was a free-loving hippie type: the narrative was that despite not being socially sanctioned as the proper partner (i.e. one who is 6 foot, from the right frat and class background, etc.), by learning how to get women emotionally and sexually excited, one can liberate the world of such rigid rules and bring true and free sexual connection to men and women.
The current state of the manosphere and the infection of tradcon ideology is just bizarre. It has come to the point that the ideology is destroying their ability to reason rationally about making decisions regarding women. For instance, Men claiming to be "red pill" having the adorably naive opinion that if they legally marry a woman who fears God and loves Trump enough, she won't steal all his money in divorce rape one day...
"I wonder if the very nature of "swallowing the red pill" encourages conspiratorial thinking"
It might, but the "woke" metaphor is pretty similar to "swallowing the red pill." The woke think they are "awake" and everyone else is then asleep to what they perceive to be the true issues, or the true nature of reality.
Pickup itself seems pretty apolitical to me... wanting to f**k pretty girls doesn't seem to have a natural political valence.
When I split with my now ex-wife 10 years ago, PUA content changed my life. I learned enough game to meet my personal definition of success with women. The road between then and now has not been smooth. However, those potholes were valuable lessons as well.
I found the content of 10 years ago to be centered on personal development and improvement. Sure, there were women-hating misogynists; they were a minority and their content didn’t appeal to me. Self-improvement and libertine entertainment for all involved is what I focused on and educated me.
The world has become more divided and polarized in the last 10 years and current manosphere content reflects this. Content creators that I used to pay attention to and are still producing now seem unnaturally focused on “us vs them.” And the new generation of creators are immature children.
Mature, reasoned, fact-based content like what you produce is in short supply - which doesn’t bode well for the manosphere’s future.
I think social media is the change: something about it changes how and/or what people think. For PUA guys, and for many others.
Belching political views is easy... living a great life is hard...
Must confess I don`t 100% buy into the (pretty old) "the radical left drove normal people to become right-wing idiots"-trope.
I think it was more of a tit for tat development where one of the driving forces was also guys like Roosh, Anthony Johnson, Tate intentionally putting out controversial stuff in order to attract clicks. Which in turn increased the focus of the-very-online left on the manosphere and on trying to cancel those guys. Which drove those guys to respond...
This is also the answer to your point no. 2: it`s all about attention, clicks, engagement and ultimately money and the social media algorithms amplifying outrage (no matter, if from the left or the right), because outrage is the best way to achieve attention, clicks...CREAM
It's pretty simple. PUA teaches you about reality, the state of the world and biological differences. To be successful you have to improve yourself, as well as work with reality as it is (not as you'd like it to be.
This is what it means to be right wing in essence as well. Understanding the differences between groups and working to build societies that work based on those realities.
The left is the side of wishful thinking at best, and hateful envy at worst
It's interesting...as well as PUA's tending to lean right....the saying goes there are no left wingers who lift. Again a group that has learned to work with reality vs wishful thinking
The funny thing is that the left thinks they know about reality and the state of the world... I just remarked in another comment,
>>"I wonder if the very nature of "swallowing the red pill" encourages conspiratorial thinking"
>>It might, but the "woke" metaphor is pretty similar to "swallowing the red pill." The woke think they are "awake" and everyone else is then asleep to what they perceive to be the true issues, or the true nature of reality.
Yes everyone believe their view is correct, or they wouldn't hold it
But you asked why PUA's go right. When men learn game they often come from a "everyone is born equal" perspective that is the default teaching of western society. Then they (often painfully) learn Game and the biological differences between men and women, and how certain behaviors will stimulate certain reactions in women. They see how men and women are born this way, and that people are not born blank slates
These same men see how well game works because of the innate differences between men and women, and then start to apply that learning to other groups, such as race. They then see again that the "everyone is born equal and differences are purely due to systemic racism/environment" also doesn't apply, and that societies (relationships between different groups of people) should take these differences into account to work well
You yourself may not agree with it. But this answers your question
I'm not sure that blank slate ideology or whatever its opposite may be is a or the fundamental driver... noting the differences between men and women seems like too small a driver. And many on the left are not blank slatists... Steven Pinker is (was?) on the left, and even wrote THE BLANK SLATE...
> It's pretty simple. PUA teaches you about reality,
Agree. Reality. And Natural Law - which aligns with a very old, consistent, well proven view of the world.
"Right" and "Left" are political terms. Whereas "conservative" (closed/consistent) and "liberal" (open/new) point at more psychological states.
It might seem odd that "conservative" guys would get laid and "liberal" guys would not. But if we think about "Chad" on the HS football team, or later in a fraternity in college... there might be some debauchery, but still full acknowledgement of Natural Law. Too much drinking, lots of girls, but an eye on reality the whole time.
A Liberal mindset, and proclivity toward openness leads to creativity. In many cases that is attractive, and successful. Like the "artist" that gets laid. But that is rare. That isn't supposed to work "mainstream." It doesn't apply to most men, they won't do "openness" well. And most women don't want an artist... a classically masculine man remains very desireable.
As the Left has taken this "openness" way beyond what Natural Law will allow, it's been obvious failure. It's hard to run daygame with drug zombies on every corner. I lived through that Leftist change in SF. It wasn't online. It wasn't social media. It was right in front of me. Most of the Leftist shit that took off around 2010 (2014, really) is now in retreat... as it hasn't made the world better. I don't want to "defund the police." I want a safe neighborhood for work, and for pickup, and to date. I don't want to be car jacked as I drive a girl home. None of this is good for turn on. Being unsafe doesn't make girl's panties wet.
I agree that "Liberal" types might embrace sex, or more "taking sex out into the open." Recently the Left was "all trannies, all the time, gay, gay, gay," which isn't a great worldview for straight men. It's not even political, it's just not Natural - we're not all gay, we're not all dying to go trans. Conservative people fucked (and often had lots of kids), but didn't wear it on the sleeve or push it as a healthy motto for society. It's not healthy. We can see that.
You Redquest, and Yoylo, are examples of a rare kind of player, as I see it. Very high in "openness," which might align you to the Left. You're also more inclined toward "sex clubs" and other more "open" concepts, including being "Poly." I think that is the rare position, actually. Whereas Chad from the football team is more common. Or even, "I just got a promotion at work and picked up a girl at the bar afterward" typical merit driven men doing better, having more sex. That seems more typically and aligned with what we'd expect based on Natural Law. The Alpha male doesn't sit around, smoke pot all day, and wait for basic income.... how is that sexy? It's not.
My point isn't even that a conservative/traditional view is "better." It is only that it makes more sense, particularly with the current outcomes we've seen. Life is not better in obvious ways.
And I personally took a very conservative, "hard working" attitude, applied it to Game, and did very well. "Hard work" is conservative thing, not a "Liberal" one. A lot of Game is a "part time job" (good description), not a "hand out" - doesn't work that way, life doesn't work that way.
Game cleans you up, and brings you into many lifestyle habits that have "traditionally been successful." I don't care about any part of the "manosphere" except Game. But even just within Game, we see that.
Nice observation. Definitely true, and definitely odd. I came to the scene back in the moderated ASF days. Back then everyone was a free-loving hippie type: the narrative was that despite not being socially sanctioned as the proper partner (i.e. one who is 6 foot, from the right frat and class background, etc.), by learning how to get women emotionally and sexually excited, one can liberate the world of such rigid rules and bring true and free sexual connection to men and women.
The current state of the manosphere and the infection of tradcon ideology is just bizarre. It has come to the point that the ideology is destroying their ability to reason rationally about making decisions regarding women. For instance, Men claiming to be "red pill" having the adorably naive opinion that if they legally marry a woman who fears God and loves Trump enough, she won't steal all his money in divorce rape one day...
"I wonder if the very nature of "swallowing the red pill" encourages conspiratorial thinking"
It might, but the "woke" metaphor is pretty similar to "swallowing the red pill." The woke think they are "awake" and everyone else is then asleep to what they perceive to be the true issues, or the true nature of reality.
Pickup itself seems pretty apolitical to me... wanting to f**k pretty girls doesn't seem to have a natural political valence.